Navigating The Industry: Q&A with Naledge
Rapper, Mentor and Doctoral student Jabari ‘Naledge Evans’ has been active within the music industry for close to 20 years now. From meeting Double-0 at University of Pennsylvania and starting Kidz in the hall, to coming up in the blog era, navigating the early social platforms and developing branded content, to now being enrolled as a PHD student at Northwestern in their Doctoral program. Naledge has a plethora of of knowledge as it relates to media and content.
Check out our interview as we discuss the change in consumption of music, key platforms for current artists to be on, music industry being bottom-up, and starting The Braniac Project, a nonprofit organization whose mission is to promote viable recording arts careers to at-risk youth in Chicagoland public schools.
You’ve been involved in the music industry for upwards 20 years, from putting out records solo, to albums with Kidz in the Hall. Times have changed and technology has been able to expand, allowing users to intake music differently. What’s the biggest change you’ve seen in users consumption of music?
There’s been several shifts. I’ve entered this new phase of being a researcher who looks at things from the outside as far as talking to teenagers and adolescents about how they consume media. I think the biggest change has turned into the fact that consumers are producers. That was always the case, but it’s a lot more explicit in today’s society. Whereas the fan was kind of passive before. Two things have really happened:
The album has turned into the single
The single turned into the playlist
Music consumption is always going to reflect the time that we are living in. And the time that we are living in now is that music is something that provides a mood. We’ve moved away from songs necessarily being attached to the artists that create them. Therefore it’s harder to create loyalty amongst consumers. That’s why social media has become much more important. You create loyalty through fans trying to get to know you. Artists used to be inaccessible, now they’re over accessible. Those are things that have shifted.
I think the other thing that is happening is that the barrier between being a hobbyist and a professional have been blurred. Like I said, the consumer is now the producer. That can go to different levels. There are people who are at home who are DJs and do mashups of your song without asking, there are comedians who have your song playing during their videos, or a kid on Tik Tok who can create a dance to your song without you soliciting it. That’s deeper levels of prosumer. Producers and consumers at the same time. But there’s also very passive ways, like when I’m at the gym I share music on my Instagram stories of what I’m listening to. Yeah, I’m consuming the music, but I’m also producing by telling my followers what I’m listening to. That says something about me and says something about the artist. I think those are the three things. The way the music is delivered, majority of it is through streaming rather than the in-person brick and mortar. Those are all of the things that have shifted during my time in looking at the industry. It’s harder to create brand loyalty. But, there are also some cool things like genre-bending and hip-hop becoming the most popular genre of music globally.
With record labels working to strike deals with social platforms and publishers, will it be harder for artists to continue striving to be independent? Or, will we see a resurgence of artists signing to major labels again?
It’s interesting. I mean for the artist that is not new, that already has an audience, they might actually want to revert away from the label system. The main thing a label can do is give you visibility, but the main way to get your money as an artist is to get on the road and right now that isn’t happening. I don’t know if I would be so quick to up and sign a 360 deal with a label.
I think there are more advantages in trying to get corporate sponsorships. Advertising and marketing present a lot of opportunities right now for artists. Things like branded content. Those were things that Kidz in the Hall were doing once we left Rawkus and were on Duck Down. Those three albums that we did with them were funded by Hennessey, Adidas, Diageo, and Red Bull. If they didn’t fund the entire project, they would fund videos or reality series on YouTube (which is pretty normal now). Brands took care of the costs because they were in a better position to throw marketing dollars at something. The DIY hip-hop business model was like a drop in their marketing budget. It wasn’t nearly as close to what they were giving someone like Ryan Scheckler or Travis Pastrana. So, if you have an audience and great engagement, why are you even dealing with labels right now? Just stay popular and ride the wave through the pandemic and to the road opening back up. Unless you have a scorching hot record that can go to radio or is doing numbers. I just know that right now is the best time to stay put.
As you look back on the early days of social media and emerging technology platforms, what was the one platform that changed the game for artists? Now-a-days, what do you think is the most important platform for an artist?
When we were coming up it was hands down MySpace. MySpace was the platform that allowed artists the ability to showcase individuality, gave them ability to develop a curated playlist that could consistently change at a moments notice. It gave you a window into who their friends were. While Facebook did that, it wasn’t quite the same. MySpace was for musicians when we started using it, it was a business card. It was better than a demo tape because all of your information was in one place. I think it was the precursor and different platforms have used elements that made MySpace work. I honestly think MySpace lost out. There was a window where MySpace could’ve adapted and become what Facebook has become. Which is the technology, but have other platforms and apps fold into them, acquiring them. They missed that moment. Even when they tried to make their second comeback, I want to say they were like 3rd or 4th in total users, even though people weren’t actively using it. For musicians it was a great way to engage with fans and promoters. You can use SEO to figure out who was who and what was what. Nobody was really monetizing their popularity at that point, you were just on the platform.
Then I think it moved into being Soundcloud, I missed that era. But, also here in Chicago, the videographer became important in telling the narrative of the artist, particularly those that are from big places like NY, LA, or Atlanta that already had established identities. For Chicago artists, YouTube provided an ability to do things with their cellphones that other generations weren’t able to do. YouTube on the very basic end of things, revolutionized the way folks in the hood got music. You ask a shorty to play their favorite song, they’re probably not going on Spotify, they’ll go on YouTube and play the music video or the lyric video. There’s minimal advertising or paywalls that they have to deal with. And that’s how they’re finding the underground stuff, but also finding out all about the artist. What they look like, where they hang out, etc. I think now you’re forced to be on at least four platforms as an artist. Whereas being on MySpace was enough.
If you’re better at banter, then Twitter is good for you. I hate to sound sexist, but if you’re cute/attractive female rapper Instagram is a good way for you to attract an audience, because your visual is what will drive the audience to you initially. Looking at somebody like Rubi Rose, not out here with a major single but has 1M followers on Instagram. The reality of it, a lot of it is due to her physical appearance and the way in which she strategically places photos online. When she does have a hit record, it will probably go. It’s the same way Cardi B built her audience. But then we are seeing artists make dance type records, the Atlanta type club records, and Tik Tok is becoming a platform where those songs get broken into mainstream. Now, you have to pick your poison and figure out what works for you.
“IF YOU’RE ABLE TO CUT THROUGH THE NOISE AND BE CAPTIVATING ON MULTIPLE LEVELS, THEN IT’S GOING TO BENEFIT YOU”
The music industry is now a bottom-up approach, compared to top-down. How has this shift benefitted the artist? Or has it not?
I think there are artists who fit better in the other model being that their personality doesn’t shine through as much on social media, or they’re not as savvy using technology, or maybe not as prolific in terms of getting in the studio. Maybe they need a team of people to do press training and people to come up with ideas on how to market a song, or need an A&R in a room to confirm what song is the one to run with, and maybe they need a big budget for their song to crack. However, there are certain artists who are taking advantage of the tools and the climate and saying, “Hey I’m going to do this myself” and they don’t feel like it’s a shift, rather its how it’s always been. There’s always been these tools. While I’m learning new tools, these kids were born into them. They’ve realized they can make this shit go on their own. That’s helpful man. There’s smoke and mirrors with things like soundscan, DBS SOUNDS and how you get on MTV. And, a lot of those things were controlled by gatekeepers. Whereas now, the bottom-up approach works wonders if you actually are what you say you are. If you’re actually popular, you’re not buying followers. If your engagement level is authentic, then you can leverage that and get money from it. And that’s a real thing, it’s not a joke.
You don’t need a label to be getting money off of YouTube. You don’t need a label to get money off of Spotify. You can TuneCore your album and it’s everywhere. There are people who are doing real numbers and also selling merch. Ton of artists making six figures when they combine their YouTube and merchandise money. It’s helping those who have that hustle in them tremendously. It also helps that you don’t need to always have music out to be relevant, you can be doing other things, you just need to be making content. Media has merged where all of these different mediums are in one space. Our cellphones hold everything. Your new album isn’t just competing with so and so’s new album. Your new album is competing with this podcast, it’s competing with a DVR, ESPN, etc. If you’re able to cut through the noise and be captivating on multiple levels, then it’s going to benefit you. But now to be an artist you need to turn yourself into a media mogul or maven. If you’re good at that shit, then you don’t need the industry to validate that. And if they do come your way, you can use your leverage because you can see your metrics. I say it all of the time that if our buzz interacted with the level of tools that we have now, it would’ve been a cheat code. But at the end of the day, things happen when they’re supposed to happen. We worked the bloggers. The bloggers were our way into utilizing our resources to get visibility. More so than any social media platform. Bloggers would put us next to the new 50 cent or Drake song. That was beneficial to us, to be able to be in that space.
Before starting The Braniac project in 2014, you had been involved in volunteering in several youth mentorship programs, like Little Black Pearl Art & Design Academy and Foundations of Music. What were a few things you learned from these opportunities that made you ready to begin your own non-profit?
I wanted to be able to control the experience and also wanted to take it outside of the school setting. I felt like that would help me deal with less politics in terms of the ground I would be able to cover, with the students I was engaging with. Also, it became a point of wanting to pursue grants. I think those experiences were good in many ways and they taught me how things work and the infrastructure, so it was a way for me to ease into it without investing my own money into something.
From the start I think it was inevitable that I was eventually going to do something on my own. If you’re doing mentorship and you’re deeply entrenched in it, either you burn out and stop doing it all together, or you probably want to do your own thing at some point.
As someone who grew up in the Southside of Chicago, can you speak to the importance of developing organizations/non-profits that help provide opportunities to kids in these areas?
We are seeing the benefits with artists like Saba, NoName, Vic Mensa, Chance and others. These artists may not have been here if it wasn’t for organizations like LTAB, YCA, Little Black Pearl, YOUmedia. These were the programs that provided resources for youth to put together professional level product, but also find their tribe of other creators who they can collaborate with and learn from. Those organizations are super critical for creating safe spaces for artists to learn themselves and become who they are going to end up becoming. And also, it pays itself back. Saba, Chance, Vic, NoName - they have all created their own organizations and eco-systems where they could be themselves and be role models for the next generation.
Your first job in Philadelphia was an intern at Okayplayer, which was founded by QuestLove. Can you tell us any funny stories with Quest?
I don’t really have as many funny stories with Questlove. I worked directly with Angela Nissel, who co-founded Okayplayer. I did a lot of mailing if you ordered merch. If there were concerts or events, I was helping pass out flyers. We helped promote a lot of different projects, whether it be Reflection Eternal, or Jill Scott. We would be their stream team, digitally and physically, in the Philly area.
The only thing I really remember in terms of interaction with Quest or Black Thought were their cars. Black Thought had an escalade. As much as he’s a conscious rapper, he had an escalade on 30’s. I was like, damn this shit is crazy and they are really rich off rap. In terms of dealing with Quest, other than getting him lunch, he didn’t really know who I was. But later on we performed at one of their jam sessions in New York and had an interaction and he said “Damn, you used to be an intern?” Those times were cool. Philly was really good to us and it felt like a second home. Chicago is where I’m from, but Philly made me into who I am in terms of turning into a man, and even finding Double O. I probably wouldn’t have been able to enter the space of thinking that I could do rap for a living if I never went to Philadelphia.
“IN THIS ERA, YOU HAVE TO SNATCH YOUR PROPS, YOU CANNOT WAIT FOR PEOPLE TO GIVE THEM TO YOU”
When it’s all said and done, how would you like to be remembered?
I want to be seen as a pioneer of the digital era for what Chicago has become. Us as a group, I feel like we get lost in the shuffle. People mention The Cool Kids, Kid Cudi, Wale’s, Jay Electronicas, etc. There were a lot of groups making great music at the time, but I just want to make sure we are being mentioned in that group. I myself want to be mentioned as an MC that was dope, but at the same time one of our biggest contributions was being one of the dopest groups to come from that blog era. I think that some of it has to do with us talking about. Interviews like this help us out. We haven’t been as vocal in this era. In this era, you have to snatch your props, you cannot wait for people to give them to you. I think that’s what it is, just reminding folks that you existed and the things you did.
Written by: Nico Rud